SOX to COSMO change over

Discussion related to street lighting luminaires and components.
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LinearSLI-H
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SOX to COSMO change over

Post by LinearSLI-H » Sat Nov 12, 2011 2:21 pm

Before and after, what do you guys think?, here.
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Re: SOX to COSMO change over

Post by SuperSix » Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:41 pm

I do prefer white lighting. It's obvious though that they've dimmed down the video where they're showing the SOX lanterns and done their best to make the cosmo lamps look brighter. The major thing is they've failed to point out that to achieve the same level of illumination, the power consumption has been doubled!

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Re: SOX to COSMO change over

Post by Jack_T » Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:23 pm

Those Cosmos look a bit dim to be honest.

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Re: SOX to COSMO change over

Post by Danny » Sat Nov 12, 2011 5:46 pm

Heh i hate them... The lanterns are ugly, them stupid huge White dome things just look absolutely RIDICULUS on top of these Lanterns!... I think the only good things about Cosmo Fittings is the actuall Cosmopolis Lamp aswell as them giving out White Light!... its such a shame to see those perfectly working SOX lanterns Skipped for this *****!.. Plus its boring when a whole street of lights comes on at the Same time! as i love to see them all come on at differant times!... I'm dreading the Day they fit these things in this Town (Unless i can get some old gear LOL)! as this countys half done already ! Rant over!

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Re: SOX to COSMO change over

Post by LinearSLI-H » Sun Nov 13, 2011 7:51 am

I wonder why the Cosmos are only going in down south at the minute?, I agree with Elliot, the SOX section of the vid has been dimmed down, as theres no way 55watt SOX were a dull as that.
I dont have any lumen figures for Philips`s cosmos, but I somehow can`t see ANY halide lamp of 45/60watt putting out the 7650lumens of a 55watt LPS.

Having said that, I do like them, I was lucky enough to just remember the MBFs around middlewich in the 70s, and I like that white light from halides, but I suppose after seeing SOX/SON everywhere in Cheshire, (we only have 4 halide streetlights in my next town to me, near to the shopping center round about at Winsford), and these are in Idustria Vectras but with the SON all around them you can`t really see them properly with their light.

When your surrounded with one type of light, you always wish they were another, like Al in his country would like to see the SOX back, over MBF, we here would like to see MBF again!

I can do both at home! :mrgreen: , if I get boared with SON in the Astra, I will put a halide in when the SON becomes EOL, its going to be interesting to see what the garden will look like after years of HPS, when a MH goes in.
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Re: SOX to COSMO change over

Post by sailormoon01uk » Sun Nov 13, 2011 9:05 am

To be honest looking at the Technical data of the Cosmowhite Lamp and a 55w SOX there is very little difference in Elctrical Load and Light output also with CPO-T Lighting they show streets better lit and better Light control etc, where in reality a modern 60w CPO-T lamp gives 6800 Lumens OK this is not to bad considering a 55w SOX gives 7150 Lumens but the drawback of the CPO-T lighting is the Costs are astronomical, example a 55w SOX Lamtoer works about £100 plus the Lamp about £20 compared to £300 plus for a CPO-T Lantern and £50 for the Lamp that's over the three times the price. Also the other issue is the Electronic Ballasts as we know have issues with premature Faliures, OK there are Cheaper and more reliable alternatives example a 70w SON lamp this however Produces Yellowy Pink Light and gived 5600 to 6000 Lumens a good 1150 to 1500 Lumens Less but they draw more energy (about 90 watts with ballast loss), however the fittngs use Both Conventional Gear or Electronic Gear With Conventional Gear they make the inital costs of the Lantern as Cheap as SOX and the lamps are the Cheapest to buy (about £10) which makes the more favourable for local Councils especially as they are being pressurised to convert from SOX to modern Lighting especially with the cutback to their budgets and EU regulations) again with SON lighting if white Light is required they can simply change the Lamp to a CDO-TT Metal Halide Lamp and getthe same Light as the SON lamp and again the Metal Halide Lamps are Chaper then the COSMO Lamps

TO date were I live my Local Council rarely use White Light unless required for Asthestic areas around Shopping areas and in High Crime Areas, most Streets are lit using SON lamps and still 30% of the Streets are still lit using SOX Lamps however all this will change as the more traditional Light sources are being Phased out example I heard that All SOX lighting will be Phased out by 2016 especially due to the requirements that Street lighting must have a Colour Rendering of 20 and Above (this maks SON borderline) Conventional Gear will be Phased out for Electronic Gear, Mercury Lamps, Standard SON as well as Retrofit SON Lamps are to be Banned, Fluorescent Lamps and Tubes with Standard Gear and CRI under 80 are also to be Banned too so not only will this affect Street Lighting, it's going to affect allmost averyone

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Re: SOX to COSMO change over

Post by Danny » Sun Nov 13, 2011 10:44 am

@Rich, we in the North East are getting Cosmos every where too... they are using some sort of THORN Lanterns for 45W & 60W then Urbis ZX12 lanterns for the 90W & 140W.. The main bit i dont like about them is the node systems as half of them are dayburning

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Re: SOX to COSMO change over

Post by LinearSLI-H » Sun Nov 13, 2011 11:20 am

The nearest city to me is Stoke-on-trent, about 30 odd miles away, Jo`s niece live there and all there side street lanterns are being replaced with Philips`s Residiums with PL lamps.
I think price is a main factor with the cosmos as Colin says, but if city lighting departments buys them in bulk, it must be a bit cheaper for them?

It would be nice to see some SON / HPS lamps.">SON-T de-luxe lamps to be put into street lighting lanterns although, it would only be notest by the likes of all us on here, and I`m not sure theres a 70watt version of them?
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Re: SOX to COSMO change over

Post by Lampwizard » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:29 pm

Current Cosmopolis lamps are 2800K but a 4000...4200K version is coming. That's true white light, mimicking the MV lamps from the past.

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Re: SOX to COSMO change over

Post by Tom » Mon Nov 14, 2011 8:48 pm

Hmm, I quite fancy the idea of Cosmo lamps of the 4000-4200K mark! Just need to get round the gear issues! This system needs dumbing down and simplyfying, with ordinary photocells and magnetic gear ideally!
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Re: SOX to COSMO change over

Post by frutas » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:10 pm

Speaking of Cosmo colour temperatures, where I live we have streets of Iridiums and there is noticeable colour temp difference between them - either a distinct red tint or a distinct yellow tint. Some have failed recently and been replaced, so is this the colour shift over the lifetime?

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Re: SOX to COSMO change over

Post by sailormoon01uk » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:54 pm

Cosmo Lamps can indeed be operated on both Standard Thermal and Electronic Photocells as well as the dedicated Intellegent Photcell, as we know Cosmo lamps must be lit on dedicated Elecronic Ballasts whic is the issue due to premature Failures, etc.

Re Colourshift I am unaware there was any with Cosmo Lamps anyway they are infact made in three Colours they are 2000 deg K to match SON, elliptical bulb with a diffusing coating, can be used in the same fitting as mercury lamps, but require different control gear. 2/ SON / HPS lamps.">SON-T, tubular clear hard glass for floodlighting. 3/ SON-TD, tubular double ended clear quartz, the length and cap are equivalent to those of tungsten halogen lamps.">High Pressure Sodium Lighting, type Cosmogold, and 3000 to match Filament/Halogen Lighting as well as 4000 deg K to match Mercury/Fluorescent Lighting types Cosmowhite, Technically the Cosmo Gold is a SON, elliptical bulb with a diffusing coating, can be used in the same fitting as mercury lamps, but require different control gear. 2/ SON / HPS lamps.">SON-T, tubular clear hard glass for floodlighting. 3/ SON-TD, tubular double ended clear quartz, the length and cap are equivalent to those of tungsten halogen lamps.">High Pressure Sodium Lamp dedicated to run on the same ballast as the Cosmo White Lamp, which Technically is a Ceramic Metal Halide Lamp, thiese then give the Street Lighting Authorities the Choice of Golden Yellow or Warm or Cooler White Light.

Again why pay for expensive Lamps Ugly looking Fittings and Intellegent Photocells etc when you can use a WRTL Delta, 2600 or SRL8 and for Main Roads a Vectra, MRL6 or simmilar with a SON / HPS lamps.">SON-T or CDO-TT Lamp and a standard Photocell for a fraction of the Price, it the way Streets have been lit for over 20 years for CDO-TT or 40 years for SON / HPS lamps.">SON-T Lighting, and why Intellegent Photocells which 1) need Programming 2) Cost a fortune to control Street Lighting, whats wrong with Standard Photocells or if Part Night lighting is required a Part night Photocell such as the Royce Thompson Nightstar or Zodion SS9 PHotocell which are fraction the cost of the Intellegent Photocell, also as for outages what's wrong with the way it has been done since the invention of Timeswitches and Photocells for Street Lighting in the 1930's if there is a fault someone contacts the local council.

All the Best

Colin

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Re: SOX to COSMO change over

Post by Danny » Mon Nov 14, 2011 10:58 pm

Yes i totally agree with you there Colin

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Re: SOX to COSMO change over

Post by Jack_T » Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:34 am

Those intelligent photocells are a silly idea, they look ugly, and since they all go on at the same time, why can't they just have a big master light switch?! :lol:

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Re: SOX to COSMO change over

Post by LinearSLI-H » Thu Nov 17, 2011 9:40 am

I can see why the `inteligent cell` thing is taking off, as you could have one cell on a contactor, switching about 30 odd columns at the same time.
However the whole undergroung cable system would have to be rewired!, and when lighting columns go out, only 1 out of 10 people will report it, (the other 9 don`t give a toss)!

But with the cosmos, it would be cheaper to just put normal halides into existing lighting now, as at one time NO-ONE made a 70/150watt halide with an E27/40 cap!!
Last edited by LinearSLI-H on Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: SOX to COSMO change over

Post by sailormoon01uk » Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:31 am

Hi Rich

I agree whay cant Councils simply use standard Metal Halides in existing Lanterns, as there is no excuse, as today metal Halides are made in sizes from 50 watts say for Side Road Lighting to 1000 watts as found in High Mast Lighting, and 20 watts for display lighting to 3500 watts for stadium Lighting, Standard metal Halides run on existing HPS or Mercury Gear as well as US Constant Wattage Gear, as well as electronic Gear, they are Cheaper to buy and yet Councils recently seem to go overboard replacing Good SOX and SON lantern for Ugly lookin Lanterns fitted with Unreliable Ballasts and Intellegent Photocells etc, which cost a lot more to buy, No wonder our Council Taxes are so High and why Other Departments need to cutback on other resources

All the Best

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Re: SOX to COSMO change over

Post by LinearSLI-H » Thu Nov 17, 2011 10:38 am

Morning Colin, you know what I`d like to try?........., to fit all 80watt MBF lamps to a load of Industria Vectras, just to see what it would look like!! :D , using MBF in a lantern with optics.

Ok, I know optics are only designed for clear lamps, but they would be better than the old Beta 4s of the 70s!
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Re: SOX to COSMO change over

Post by Lampwizard » Sat Nov 19, 2011 12:38 pm

@Sailormoon: the Cosmopolis family is a bit more different.

The Cosmopolis Gold (CPO-TG, 2000K) is a ceramic high-pressure sodium lamp. This lamp is intended to be driven on electronic gear only with either LF or HF power output but won't run on gear designed for CPO-TW lamps. This lamp + gear has been dropped from the Philips portfolio.

The Cosmopolis White lamps (CPO-TW, 2800 and 4000K) are ceramic metal halide lamps and can only be run on electronic gear with low-frequency power output. On HF output, the lamp discharge will become unstable.

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Re: SOX to COSMO change over

Post by sailormoon01uk » Sat Nov 19, 2011 6:59 pm

Yep I know the Cosmo Lamps have a different type of Arc and Performance compared to SON and Metal Halide Lamps, hence why they are expensive, plus require a PGZ lampholder too, also Cosmo Lamps can be Dimmed too

All the Best

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Re: SOX to COSMO change over

Post by Lampwizard » Sat Nov 19, 2011 8:10 pm

Correct, CPO can be dimmed to 60/70% of nominal power which is ideal during the night when there are less people on the road. Some ballasts even have the internal intelligence to dim at certain hours (Lumistep):

http://www.sitelighting.com/Literature/ ... ep_cut.pdf

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