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LED Streetlighting - Split topic from V-Max Installs in MK

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 12:52 pm
by Paul
Now I am starting to see LED technology in it's more developed state, I too agree that the lighting levels are improving and I can start to see the benefits despite how sad it is to see the old lamps disappear.
I still find the lanterns a bit of a glare bomb and think they could do more to addess that and maybe colour shift the diodes to be less hard a cold in terms of light output. Would a SON coloured LED light agree with you? I believe there have been some lanterns developed with SON coloured diodes....

LED Streetlighting - Split topic from V-Max Installs in MK

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 4:55 pm
by LinearSLI-H
Although it is sad to see the old lamps go, I don't think of it that way, it's just their time has come to an end. Back in the 40s, when the MA was the street lighting top dog, producing a mind blowing 40 lumens per watt, for its day, it was much better than anything else on the market at that time. But you have to remember, discharge lighting has been the 'stars' now for over eighty years, something else was bound to come along to, 'move time on', but as long as we all have hid tech in our collection's, they will never be forgotten 8-)

Re: LED Streetlighting - Split topic from V-Max Installs in MK

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:11 pm
by Paul
When you say it like that Rich, it does put it into perspective.
Thing is, there is just something about LED and it's spread which seems to have ground my gears, if you like! I think it a mix of things, how LED has arrived and swept away swathes of different styles of SOX, SON & MH lanterns and replaced them with a handful of usually ugly lanterns. We've lost a lot of the diversity in population if you like! When I was a kid, I used to know where I was by the style of lanterns on the posts, I wouldn't now!
Another thing is the fact there are very few retrofits. This has lead to thousands and thousands of perfectly good lanterns being given the chop and sent to waste when perfectly good alternatives could have been developed. The single-use design of some lanterns also seems very wasteful.
It's not really the technology's fault, just those that implement it, I guess. Thoughts?

Re: LED Streetlighting - Split topic from V-Max Installs in MK

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 8:21 pm
by Tom
I totally agree with the needless waste of perfectly good lanterns. Replacing an old lantern that's done it's time is fair enough but I really don't like seeing lanterns that are barely ten years old being binned off! I'm sure if the industry put their minds to it, we could have some excellent LED retrofits. Be it a module that makes use of the existing optic, a panel that replaces the bowl or a lamp such as Philips' LED Master SOX. I know some already exist so why aren't we seeing more of this pactice?

I'm sad to see the old 35w SOX Beta 5s and Gamma 6s being swept away round here. Those were the lanterns of my childhood and I remember them replacing MBF when I was around 5! But in fairness, those lanterns have served their time with best part of 40 years service under their belt!

Re: LED Streetlighting - Split topic from V-Max Installs in MK

Posted: Sat Sep 01, 2018 10:05 pm
by LinearSLI-H
It weird how the lighting community sees it like that, I also grew up with the beta five, pole mounted sox lanterns, and the countless linears we had in our town, but I can't say I miss them now?, which may sound a bit heartless :roll:, but I don't.
I suppose we were lucky here, we didn't get the first generation of really poor led lanterns, our council seems to have 'bided their time', until they went with mass change, of what I see as decent stuff,so I haven't had time to hate them, if you will?
Then there's our street lighting itself, our old concrete columns we, circa, 60 years old, with their beta fives close behind at some 35 years old, so a change was on the cards. Also, it maybe my aging eyesight!, but I much prefer white light at night now, and even the 10 or so son lanterns we still have left, make the streets at night look 'old and dirty' to me somehow, (is the best way I can describe it), if that makes any scene??, which takes me back to Paul's other question, (me personally, I wouldn't be happy with son coloured led diodes), I don't see the point of that?

Re: LED Streetlighting - Split topic from V-Max Installs in MK

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 11:52 am
by Paul
I saw a documentary on streetlighting in the USA and they had SON coloured LED lanterns IIRC and some 'study' had found some reason why SON colour was better. Personally I like a more fluorescent / MBF like colour but LED seem cooler and harsher.
I'll take a look for details on that study....

Re: LED Streetlighting - Split topic from V-Max Installs in MK

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 7:58 pm
by LinearSLI-H
Philips's 4000 K is leaning towards the green side, but Holophanes 4000 K is a pretty good match to MBF lamps, with more red in it 8-)

Re: LED Streetlighting - Split topic from V-Max Installs in MK

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 8:02 pm
by LinearSLI-H
Lol, my clumsy big fingers on my phones touch screen!, I think I've just reported my own post!, sorry if I did Paul :mrgreen:

Re: LED Streetlighting - Split topic from V-Max Installs in MK

Posted: Sun Sep 02, 2018 9:59 pm
by Zelandeth
One thing I realised that makes quite a difference when walking this evening is that the mains frequency flicker that affects pretty much all HID lighting (halide seems to make it the most obvious to my eye) is absent now.

Something I saw over in Florida (Islamorada) back in March, where they've pretty much entirely switched to LED is that in some areas red lanterns have been used. I'm assuming it's to minimise impact on certain sorts of wildlife as they seemed to just be random blocks.

Could be a good way of highlighting particular hazard areas on the road though, using a notably different colour in set areas (hardly a new idea, see also the old yellow MBF lamps, using SON to contrast to MBF etc), the one which springs to mind would be using the InGaN based green LEDs for those areas - it's a very unnatural colour, so draws your attention, it's a good match for the peak of scotopic vision, not to mention the downright stupid amount of light you can get out of them.

Sadly I couldn't stop to snap photos at the time as there was nowhere safe to pull over, and the Overseas Highway is essentially the single busy main road through the island, so it's not a good place to stop! ...trying to turn left out of anywhere is a nightmare!

Re: LED Streetlighting - Split topic from V-Max Installs in MK

Posted: Sun Sep 23, 2018 8:36 pm
by MissRiaElaine
Sorry, try as I might I just can't stand LED street lighting. Every single one of them around here is a glare-bomb, pure and simple. They're ugly to look at and they have no optical control whatsoever. They are also, for the most part, inadequately spaced along the roads, just being plonked on top of existing lamp posts, replacing perfectly serviceable MH and LPS lamps. They don't have the directional control to fill the gaps, so there are huge black spots between lanterns.

Also the sky glow is atrocious - take a look at the shot from this webcam any time after about 8 or 9 at night :doh