Street Lighting Cut Backs

Discussion related to street lighting luminaires and components.
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sailormoon01uk
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Street Lighting Cut Backs

Postby sailormoon01uk » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:48 am

I see some of the Street Lights where I live are going to be switched off (example Part Night) as part of the (government) cuts, this is going to be a major worry to people I know as the Crime rate is so high and where there is Street lighting outages it's going to attract mischievous yobs, break-ins and other criminal activity.

see HERE.

I wasn't to be supprised with this as since 2001 they have replaced SOX lighting with SON Lighting. For example a Side Road was lit using a 35w SOX is now lit with a 70 w SON / HPS lamps.">SON-T lamp, and a main Road which was lit using a 90w SOX is now lit using a 150w SON / HPS lamps.">SON-T Lamp, and some of the 135w SOX Lamps have been replaced with 250w SON / HPS lamps.">SON-T Lamps, it doesn't take a genius to work out that they are using 1.5 to 2 times the energy consumption, also look on Motorway Lighting they used 180w SOX lamps which have been upgraded to 400w SON / HPS lamps.">SON-T Lamps which is More than twice the enery used per lamp, MAD, if governments want to save money and keep out Street Lit go back to SOX, and if needed use SON or CDO-TT/CPO-T etc (so called White Light) where needed instread of listening to the Idiots in Europe who dictate that street lights now must have a CRI index of 20 which has now pushed the costs up, example councils having to replace a Good and reliable, SOX lanterns and Columns to use a more expensive SON or CPO-T Lantern with Electronic Gear as we know are crap.

It makes me So Mad that this Country is Wasting Money to please the EU and this Government :evil:

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Paul
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Re: Street Lighting Cut Backs

Postby Paul » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:57 am

Lunatics in charge of the asylum, if you ask me! :doh

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Re: Street Lighting Cut Backs

Postby Dave » Sat Jun 23, 2012 8:56 am

Kidderminsters looking to imply these switch-offs soon. They were thinking of dimming them, but personally i dont like that idea. Part night switching is much more simpler and cost effective.
Tenby, my holiday destination, has converted ALL lighting to part night switching. apart from the town, the streetlights will turn off at midnight. that'll cause some trouble, especially from the pratts walking home from the pub after dark. but if i am right in thinking, the very final mercury gamma 6 lantern there may have been removed :crying and i was trying to save it too.

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Re: Street Lighting Cut Backs

Postby FrontSideBus » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:01 am

I don't know but unless the pikeys have NVA's then I don't see how they can operate with no streetlights! Torches would be seen a mile away.
Regards, Mark Jones.

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sailormoon01uk
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Re: Street Lighting Cut Backs

Postby sailormoon01uk » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:12 am

Yep Street lights can simply put into part night by changing the Photocell to a Zodion SS9 or a Royce Thompson Nightstar but lanterns with Minicells would be a problem, also as more and More Pubs, Nightclubs, etc are open to early hours of the morning as well as undesirables around during the night, it's going to be more problematic than a solution,

Image
Cableform (Zodion) SS9 Part Night Photocell

Image
Royce Thompson Nightstar Part Night Photocell

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Re: Street Lighting Cut Backs

Postby Danny » Sat Jun 23, 2012 10:24 am

Well i think its stupid TBH... DCC have stopped Night patrolling for lights out at night 2 months ago.. There is lights that have been out for weeks now and they just are not being repaired. before this d!ck head of a government caME in lights were repaired within 2 days and i'd always see the guys out & about... Now nothing gets fixed and i aint seen any vans for 3 months.Nothing is fixed unless its reported by phone or email.. why the hell cant they stop spending on stupid Cosmo lanterns and the stupid harvard node systems, stay as they are as theres sod all wrong with these lanterns and keep that money for night patrolling the streets! which IMO is more important due to Crime

Stupid bloody EU and this government are destroying this country

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Re: Street Lighting Cut Backs

Postby LinearSLI-H » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:02 pm

Fight fire with fire!, if it ever happend round here I would remove my 18watt SOX from the front door and install ANOTHER 250watt SON lantern on the side of the house to light my part of the street up at the front.

They may be able to turn their lights off, but not mine! :twisted:
FEED THE MOOMIN!!

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Re: Street Lighting Cut Backs

Postby MetalHalideHater » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:51 pm

I'd increase the hours of my Gamma six and fit the SOX somewhere else.

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sailormoon01uk
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Re: Street Lighting Cut Backs

Postby sailormoon01uk » Sat Jun 23, 2012 4:51 pm

or p!SS both the EU and Council off and swap the part night Photocell for a standard Photocell :woohoo

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Re: Street Lighting Cut Backs

Postby Ash » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:04 pm

Re the initial problem :

The change from low power lighting (any) to higher power (any) is not for efficiency or anything but for "higher standards", usually well above the border of over illumination

And more, in places which had say 90W SOX they could as wll change to 55W SOX or 70W HPS if they allready were up to changing, cause modern fixtures (for SOX and any other lamp) are optically way more efficient than the "Beta 5"-like SOX fixtures

But when you consume more and more, you reach the border when it is no longer possible to keep up, and crash - total darkness or switching off



Here it appears to be no much crime, and i appreciate dark nights, which happen now either when failures happen on the system or in earth hour. But just in case anything is gonna go wrong, i have 1.5KW of HID lights at ready to set things right

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Re: Street Lighting Cut Backs

Postby FrontSideBus » Sat Jun 23, 2012 7:58 pm

I don't really have a problem with part night lighting. Just think how much energy can be saved. Just think of all those minor roads with zero traffic. A lot of people are worried about not being able to see what's going on outside their house but if you can't see them for lack of light then they aren't going to be seeing much either! I'm all for saving money wherever we can as it beats the alternative of going bankrupt and needing bailouts with severe terms and conditions attached like Greece!
Regards, Mark Jones.

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Re: Street Lighting Cut Backs

Postby frutas » Sat Jun 23, 2012 9:37 pm

With regards to the colour rendering minimum of Ra >20, from what I read in BS BS 5489-1:2003 +A2:2008 this applies to Urban / Residential areas with a higher Ra >60 in Civic centres, shopping streets etc. This would imply that roads out of built up areas such as motorway and other main roads could still use SOX as the above descriptions don't apply to them?

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Re: Street Lighting Cut Backs

Postby robtdci » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:05 pm

My road was lit by 2 * 40w 2ft T12 lanterns until 1985, controlled by mechanical Sangamo time switches. These would extinguish at mid night except for a lamp at each end and in the middle. They were then replaced by 35w SOX on full night photocells. A few years ago, these along with the 5 metre columns were replace with 100w SON / HPS lamps.">SON-T lanterns on much higher columns, set back from the road. I wrote to one of our councillors, asking why it was deemed necessary to replace the SOX lanterns and columns with much larger, more powerful lanterns on such a quiet, no through road which does not suffer from any crime problems or anti social behaviour.

She replied that the columns were being replaced as they were rusting and becoming unsafe (indeed one of them had started to lean) and that the council have to adhere to EU regulations with regard to light levels, and that they would be fined by the EU if they installed lower powered lanterns on lower columns.

In fact, as this road is lined by trees which are never pruned by the council (despite numerous requests from residents), so with the higher columns, much of the light is absorbed by the trees and does not make it to the road where it is required.

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Re: Street Lighting Cut Backs

Postby FrontSideBus » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:07 am

I've noticed this problem on a few roads near me. Low mounted Beta 5's were replaced with high mounted high power ARC's and because the lanterns are up with the trees the road has gone from being reasonably lit to rubbish! The shadows created are diabolical and the large number of bright and dark spots on the road is very distracting!

Another reason why we need to be out of the EU!
Regards, Mark Jones.

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Re: Street Lighting Cut Backs

Postby sailormoon01uk » Sat Jul 07, 2012 6:37 am

robtdci wrote:My road was lit by 2 * 40w 2ft T12 lanterns until 1985, controlled by mechanical Sangamo time switches. These would extinguish at mid night except for a lamp at each end and in the middle. They were then replaced by 35w SOX on full night photocells. A few years ago, these along with the 5 metre columns were replace with 100w SON-T lanterns on much higher columns, set back from the road. I wrote to one of our councillors, asking why it was deemed necessary to replace the SOX lanterns and columns with much larger, more powerful lanterns on such a quiet, no through road which does not suffer from any crime problems or anti social behaviour.

She replied that the columns were being replaced as they were rusting and becoming unsafe (indeed one of them had started to lean) and that the council have to adhere to EU regulations with regard to light levels, and that they would be fined by the EU if they installed lower powered lanterns on lower columns.

In fact, as this road is lined by trees which are never pruned by the council (despite numerous requests from residents), so with the higher columns, much of the light is absorbed by the trees and does not make it to the road where it is required.



Hi robtdci

It sounds like you live where I live, in Sefton, as my street was too lit by Part Night Lighting, they were GEC Z8250 Fluorescent Street lights on 4.5 metre Concrete Columns, also controlled by either Sangamo's or Horstmann's Timeswitches, in 1985 they too were replaced by Philips MI-50's and MI-26's with 35 watt SOX Lamps, and were Photocell Controlled, last year they were subsequntly changed with WRTL Delta's using 70w SON / HPS lamps.">SON-T's except on some of the Roads which have Urbis ZX1's on 6 metre steel Columns using SON / HPS lamps.">SON-T Lamps they were installed in the late 1980's early 1990's

My street is a cul-de sac, and was quiet for many years but recently, within the Last 2 years it has gone to the dumps with drug dealers coming from outside the area, blighting my street, as I live close to the A59/M57/M58 motorways we are having rival gangs coming to deal drugs and twice we have had a shooting incident in my street, as a result I have heard that the Council have decided NOT to turn the Street Lights in my Street into Part Night Lighting as us Resident's and the police are now expressing our concern's

anyway here are street lights which were used in my street

from 1960's to 1985 see HERE

from 1985 to 2011 see HERE and HERE

on some Roads from 1988 to date see HERE

and Street lights currently in use see HERE

All the Best

Colin

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Re: Street Lighting Cut Backs

Postby robtdci » Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:15 pm

Hi Colin,

Yes I do live in the Crosby area of Sefton. The fluorescent lanterns were older than the ones in your link with clouded bowls and refractor plates to the side, though some of these lanterns were replaced with the GEC model in your link. They became quite unreliable towards the end of their lives due to poor earthing to the tubes, they would just glow orange at the ends. You could sometimes make them strike by shaking the post, I was a kid when these were in use, I think the neighbours would think I had completely lost the plot if I started shaking lamp posts now :) The only surviving example that I know of these lanterns are wall mounted at the adult education centre on Cambridge road in Waterloo, though they have been out of use for decades. I did have a couple if gear trays from these lanterns back in 1985 as the council had a dumping area near here. There were various gear configurations, some with separate ballast and transformer, some combined and some with the tubes in series, others with two sets of gear (one for each tube)

Indeed the fluorescents were replaced with the Philips MI50s as in your link. Then in 2007, they along with the columns were replaced with these Here which seem over powered for this type of residential street.

Rob

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Re: Street Lighting Cut Backs

Postby sailormoon01uk » Mon Jul 09, 2012 7:29 am

Hi Rob

I know the Lanterns you mean and the one on Cambridge Road, as at the back of the Collage used to be the Street lighting Depot, now is aa transport Depot for ths council's Minibuses, the Fluorescent Lanterns were the Old ELECO HW727's from the 1960's I too remeber them around the Crosby town Hall and South Road Area, also areoun Crosby Baths/Mersey Road Area right upto Hall Road by the Coastguard station, and also where I used to go to school, Thorton, then as you go up towards the Cabbage Pub you have the Sefton estate, where they used GEC Fluorescents, all were replaced between 1984 to 1988, which is ashame, Sefton Council seemed to have the attitude of Put a SOX in it as all streetlights were replaced with SOX lanterns, do remeber when Edge Lane, Moor Lane Crosby were lit using 140w SLI/H Lamps, also all the main Roads around Magull were lit using SLI/H lamps the Side Roads around the Magull/Lydiate were lit using Mercury Lamps in Post top Lanterns, Bootle was alway lit using SOX lighting originally with REVO Seagull Lantersn on the Main Roads, and GEC Z9480's or ELECO HW853's on the Side Roads, around the Formby/Southport area was lit using SLI/H lanterns and Metrovic SOX and Mercury Lanterns, all too were replaced in the 1980's for SOX, mainly the MAin Roads were changed to Philips MA's and the Side Roads were changed to Philips MI50's and Thorn Beta 5's within the last 10 to 15 years Sefton Council have repaced most of their street lights to SON / HPS lamps.">SON-T using Urbis ZX1,2 and 3 Lanterns, WRTL Vectra's Delta's and 2600's alsso around the Bootle Town hall the Lights have been replaced with Reproduction Lanterns using CDM-T lamps, around Stanley Road there are Decostreet Lights usingh CDM-T lamps on Derby Road/Rimrose Road to Seaforth Docks the Road is lit using huge Globe Lanterns with 250w SON Lamps, these actully light the full lengh from the Seafoth Dock Flyover/Roundabout right down towards Cosco at the Pierhead, again the Street lights around Bootle are a mixture of URbis ZX series, WRTL 2600's, Delta' and Vectra's around the Netherton SOX is still surviving using 35w watt SOX Lamps in Philips MI26's and MI-50's for Side Roads and 135 watt for the Main Roads especially on Glovers Lane, Fleetwoods Lane and Edge Lane Crosby are still lit using Philips MA50's but I can see these soon going as SOX lamps are becoming far uneconomical to buy example about 30 years ageo a 35w SOX was (£12 inc VAT today they are as much as £40 in VAT) and as the Gear or LAnterns fail they are replaced with a SON / HPS lamps.">SON-T lantern.

I know these Lanterns in your link, they are the WRTL Vectra see HERE they are fitted with 150 watt SON / HPS lamps.">SON-T lamps and I agree using a lantern this big to replace a 35w SOX lantern is taking the P*ss as the council is moaning about the energy of street lights and yet they decide to light some streets using Lanterns using 4 to 5 times the wattage

All the Best

Colin

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Re: Street Lighting Cut Backs

Postby peterhoult » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:27 am

I came across a direct SON replacement LED solution from a company called LEDECOLIGHTS. I wonder if this might be a solution? It doesn't say on the site, but I think theyre about £60 each. All they would have to do is "wire out" the gear.

http://www.ledecolights.com/index.php/p ... 27-led-20w

It could also be a solution for replacing SOX if they changed the lampholder from a BC to an ES one (about £2 each) also.

I e-mailled Derbys. County Council (the council resposible for the lighting in Chesterfield where I live) with this info., I'm waiting for a response from them (The confirmation e-mail said that the "matter needs further investigation".

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Re: Street Lighting Cut Backs

Postby LinearSLI-H » Thu Nov 14, 2013 3:07 pm

I have seen some of these in use at my local hospital, on the car park in lanterns and the Thorn Piazza have been modded with them.
They are very bright, and resemble a `plus` halide lamp at first sight, however, there were about 8 out of a total of about 30 lights that the diodes or driver had died on them, making them look like an 80watt MBF with about 10 years on the clock!
Totally greened out!, I`m all for LED replacements, but it needs to be someone like Philips to make larger retrofits, than these `ring ding` Chinese tat manufacturers whos products last all of five minutes, instead of the boasted 50,000 hours that LED should have.!
FEED THE MOOMIN!!

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Re: Street Lighting Cut Backs

Postby peterhoult » Thu Nov 14, 2013 6:25 pm

LinearSLI-H wrote:I have seen some of these in use at my local hospital, on the car park in lanterns and the Thorn Piazza have been modded with them.
They are very bright, and resemble a `plus` halide lamp at first sight, however, there were about 8 out of a total of about 30 lights that the diodes or driver had died on them, making them look like an 80watt MBF with about 10 years on the clock!
Totally greened out!, I`m all for LED replacements, but it needs to be someone like Philips to make larger retrofits, than these `ring ding` Chinese tat manufacturers whos products last all of five minutes, instead of the boasted 50,000 hours that LED should have.!


So true! I suppose I'm telling you something you already know about Philips buying out Indal WRTL? So I'd imagine they are going to address this fact? Would be good if they developed their own LED retrofit for their own SOX lanterns.


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