Ban on new HID street lights inevitable?

Discussion related to street lighting luminaires and components.
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Danny
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Ban on new HID street lights inevitable?

Postby Danny » Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:30 am

:shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :o :o :o :o Whats this all about. I hope this is NOT true http://www.lighting-gallery.net/index.p ... 5.msg16621.

Dave
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Re: FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE LG YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT!!!

Postby Dave » Wed Jun 20, 2012 10:48 am

:evil: I hope this isnt true. What F******* thought it'd be a good idea to ban ALL HID's? thats near extreme. LED will NEVER be as efficient as HID. I hope the person who thought of that stupid idea is dragged through the streets by their balls :x

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Danny
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Re: FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE LG YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT!!!

Postby Danny » Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:05 am

Yes I agree this is getting rediculus. I just Rang kev who is :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: :shock: We are going to have no lights soon

Philips is trying to get governments around the world to ban all Discharge lamps!! there is whole countys just finished their PFI using SON lamps. this country DOES not have the money to convert to LED cant these idiots see that

Rant over, it just really p155£$ me off!

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Re: FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE LG YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT!!!

Postby Dave » Wed Jun 20, 2012 11:24 am

They're just money hogging b******. all they want is OUR money which WE dont have. I bet this means all fluorescent tubes too?

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Kev
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Re: FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE LG YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT!!!

Postby Kev » Wed Jun 20, 2012 12:41 pm

Lol i just emailed someone in Philips this:

You have your facts and figgues wrong. There are many HID lamps that are far far far more efficient than LED. Calling for a ban on HID lamps is just simply a retarded statment which clearly you have not thought about. Im sure my local council who have just spent £20 Million on replacment lanterns to downgrade to Cosmo (A lamp developed by Philips) would be some what annoyed if by 2020 the lamps were discontinued. Also you clearly have no hands on experence. Although LED might be assumed to reach life of 100.000.00 Hours Have the lamps actually been run for 100.000.00 Hours....NO because that is more or less 20 years. The chips WILL NOT last that long and the electronic drivers even less.

So making these kinds of statments that HID lamps should be banned by 2020 is just simply retarded in every aspect. SOX lamps for instance have a Lm/W of over 200 in some cases far far better than LED. Ceramic MH lamps are constantly being developed and to this day are more efficient than LED.



kev

this is my thoughts on it anyway. Its just a stupid statment. A way for all these big companys to start creaming money off of people. If the idiots behind desks are stipid enough to buy in to it then let them find out the hard way. LED lamps are OK for replacing GU10 in SOME cases but not my liking to be honest!

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Re: FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE LG YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT!!!

Postby FrontSideBus » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:15 pm

What a load of *****.
Regards, Mark Jones.

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LinearSLI-H
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Re: FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE LG YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT!!!

Postby LinearSLI-H » Wed Jun 20, 2012 2:31 pm

Can`t you tell who has a big hand in the LED market........ :roll:
FEED THE MOOMIN!!

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Re: FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE LG YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT!!!

Postby frutas » Wed Jun 20, 2012 3:59 pm

Are we not already getting low on the kinda rare materials that are used to make LED? As far as I'm aware we're only a few years of depleting these resources. Then the east will have us firmly by the balls.

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Re: FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE LG YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT!!!

Postby MetalHalideHater » Wed Jun 20, 2012 4:12 pm

I'm probably going to send Philips a strongly-worded email to the email address on the philips link on the link from lg.

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Re: FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE LG YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT!!!

Postby FrontSideBus » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:08 pm

It'l never happen. Urbis, WRTL and all the other manufacturers aren't going to take this lying down. They would loose serious amounts of money. There are too many lamps in use to just ban discharge, the local councils are already up to their eyes in debt, who's going to pay for it all?
Regards, Mark Jones.

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Kev
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Re: FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE LG YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT!!!

Postby Kev » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:21 pm

@FSB just about what i said in my email too philips. Its just a rediculas statment when most Discharge is more efficient what really is the point? Less power but less light??? :-?

FrontSideBus
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Re: FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE LG YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT!!!

Postby FrontSideBus » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:34 pm

Less energy my foot tbh. How much energy gets consumed to make these fancy LED's and driver circuits... I'm reckoning a hell of a lot more then a bit of glass, brass and ceramic!
Regards, Mark Jones.

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Re: FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE LG YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT!!!

Postby Ash » Wed Jun 20, 2012 6:48 pm

By 2020 LEDs may actually be more efficient than any HID (i am not counting SOX here, mostly for the reason that it seems that ALLREADY everyobne turned away from it in favor of less efficient sources, and i dont think that anyone is inteding to give it a comeback)

But then , if LEDs in 2020 will be so great and all, the users will just go and buy them there will be no reason to ban anything in order to get them to buy LEDs

So the 1st conclusion is : LEDs in 2020 are STILL going to suck, just like today. If not in efficiency then in something else, probably reliability

It is actually possible, even today and even 10 years ago, to manufacture LED lamps that will last no less than a good mercury fixture. But they are not - The manufacturers prefer to make something that costs cheaper, sucks, but made of recyclable plastic so can be considered "green" and promoted like that



Second thing i dont understand is :

Philips have, since they bought AEG, made loads of HID streetlights. They pretty much ban their own products, hoping that they will rule the LED market. Well i dont see why that would be the case, You dont need Cree, all you need is dealextreme to source some pretty goo LEDs from other manufcturers and make your own, BETTER, LED streetlights

Besides, they have the cosmo MH lamps that are so widely used in streetlighting today. And from what i see from you England folks, those cosmos are realy catching on. First, lots of those lights installed around means that Philips have sales on the cosmo lamp. Without those, they again ban their own product. And hey, many of those cosmos have electronic ballasts so if they are banned the ones allready installed are not going to last forever and need only replacment lamps



Third, consider this

Today a streetlight is all replaceable parts. If you have a street of ZX1's , and in 1 of them the ballast fails and blows the lamp. You replace the ballast and lamp and its working again, and from the street it looks a ZX1 just like the rest

With LED streetlights, imagine a street installed with LED fixtures, After 2 years the fixture is discontinued by the manufacturer, and the lights begin to fail. Then there will be 1 light in the street with different fixture. Then another one. Then another one, with another different fixture because the second allready is discontinued too. In a short time , the street will have 1 of every LED fixture existing, somebody won't like the appearance, and they ALL will be replaced just for uniformity. Green you say ?

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chanceskydiver
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Re: FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE LG YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT!!!

Postby chanceskydiver » Thu Jun 21, 2012 4:35 pm

I hope it doesn't happen, and a huge U turn on them HID lights
Still have 0 intensions on joining LG

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LinearSLI-H
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Re: FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE LG YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT!!!

Postby LinearSLI-H » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:42 pm

This was all said about the QL lamp, "It will change lighting as we know it forever", "a revolution in lighting", "On the way to realizing a lampmakers dream, the ever lasting light sorce"

Do you see the QL in WIDESPREAD use today...........?

Have all light fittings everywhere been changed to QL.......?

Is QL streetlighting dominating our roads.....?

er, no!
Last edited by LinearSLI-H on Thu Jun 21, 2012 9:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
FEED THE MOOMIN!!

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Kev
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Re: FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE LG YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT!!!

Postby Kev » Thu Jun 21, 2012 8:50 pm

VERY true rich, Not to mention i have actually found the 165W To be quite unreliable failing FAR FAR short of the 100.000.00 Hour life span!

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Re: FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE LG YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT!!!

Postby Ash » Fri Jun 22, 2012 2:07 pm

Thats besides all the concerns about RF and EMI you mean....

I think if there is a lamp that CAN be "ever lasting" it is LED. But if it woud be made of decent quality, which it obviously is not

Besides it (and because there are no well made LEDs i know of), we are left with mercury and HPS, both of which last damn 10's of years if made well, and i sseen both mercury and HPS last 20+ years

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Re: FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE LG YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT!!!

Postby frutas » Sat Jun 23, 2012 12:05 am

It generally seems that the better quality LED products are rated much more conservatively in terms of efficiency typically 60-70lm/w with CRI's of between 80-95. And more so they don't claim to be a solution for every lighting situation - just what they lend themselves to doing well.

Poorer quality products often claim these crazy efficiencies which I think a lot is down to smoke, mirrors and quality issues. The idea that an essentially point light source LED will be the ideal candidate for all situations is ridiculous. Thats both in technical and aesthetic terms which both play a huge role.

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Re: FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT HAVE LG YOU MUST CHECK THIS OUT!!!

Postby FrontSideBus » Sat Jun 23, 2012 6:17 am

I think LED lamps that use under driven high power UV LED's to pump up a remote phosphor are the best candidates to replace GLS/CFL but the problem is making them affordable yet still maintaining good reliability.
Regards, Mark Jones.


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