Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Discussion related to street lighting luminaires and components.
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Paul
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Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by Paul » Sat Feb 19, 2011 6:29 pm

I've noticed more and more councils turning off stretches of street lighting, in a bid to cut power use and reduce costs.
For a long time now, I have thought that there is too much power being burned in some quite rediculous circumstances. I find it mad that there are miles and miles of motorway lit with dual headed posts, probably 250w per head.
I think that unless it's in urban areas, or accident hotspots, street lighting should be halted or even removed. Cars do have headlights, right?

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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by Tom » Tue Feb 22, 2011 8:20 pm

Yep I agree some roads are over-lit. Especially on those long straight stretches of motorway and A road! Car headlights have drastically improved just in the last 30 years! What's worse, you can only get a decent view of the night sky in places like Cornwall and Wales!
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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by Kev » Sat Feb 26, 2011 9:21 pm

I think they should fit part night cells to every other lanters so come 12 midnight they half. Going up to bristol there are THOUSANDS of 400W Philips Iridiums! Would not like the electric bill for those!

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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by LinearSLI-H » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:44 pm

Coming home from work just, I`ve seen a Thorn Beta 5 with the cell hanging out, this one, the lamp had fully run up, but then it goes off, and on, and off, and on, and off.......................the sign too :? , think this will need new lamps by the end of the week!
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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by Kev » Wed Jul 13, 2011 11:53 pm

Interesting that SOX is exempt, They have started dimming some areas of cornwall now and soon i imagine they will be remotely switching them off!

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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by Paul » Thu Jul 14, 2011 12:46 am

That reminds me - I was driving back through Milton Keynes the other night and noticed that they have turned off some of the columns.
It seems that any that were not over junctions or crossings / bus stops, were turned off. Looked really wierd! :o

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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by LinearSLI-H » Thu Jul 14, 2011 9:33 am

So there it is........they get rid of SOX, and now SON, for all this new Halide affair, then crab about how much its costing in electric :x , and whats next, back the the 1940s/50, where they turn all street lighting off after midnight, this will be a goldmine for the wrong doers.
Last edited by LinearSLI-H on Fri Aug 01, 2014 6:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
FEED THE MOOMIN!!

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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by Kev » Thu Jul 14, 2011 10:22 am

Yes and my 8 foots still run 24/7 in my unit! Alone with my 400w SON and 250w MH outside lights! Also my cfl experiment lol

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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by Paul » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:00 pm

Watch out for that one - might get accused of running a cannabis farm! :lol: :lol:

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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by sailormoon01uk » Mon Jul 18, 2011 10:05 pm

So far there is NO talks about Street Lights in Liverpool/Sefton being switched off, if they do they can simply use Part Night Photocells such as the RTE Nightstar or the Zodion SS9, to Light say in Rural areas, and quiet Roads, etc, as for Busy Roads or areas of High Crime, etc they should leave the Light as they are (Dusk til Dawn), Re motorway Lighting they should have left them alone origionally they used 140 to 200w SLI/H lamps then swiched to 135/180w SOX lamps as they were cheaper to buy. Low Pressure Sodium Lamps use about 165 to 220 watts including Gear Loss a lot better than 270 to 440 watts per lantern these days.

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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by Jack_T » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:47 am

Amtrakuk wrote:I would do the same but one of the neighbours came round on Sunday morning asking why there was a bright orange glow coming front the front room. Then I remembered I was trying out my MA overnight, i think 135 watts of orange loveliness is a bit much. :lol:
Haha! Brilliant!

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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by sailormoon01uk » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:19 am

Many Years, Liverpool City Council still installs SOX Lighting to Date. Although Many Primary Traffic Routes and High Crime Area's have been Replaced with SON Lanterns, I'd say 80% of Liverpools Street Lighting is SOX

All the Best

Colin

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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by sailormoon01uk » Thu Jul 21, 2011 2:01 am

I Agree, Out of Interest Liverpool City Council was the first to use Sodium Lamps (Type SOX lamp, which had to be burnt only in the horizontal position.">SO/H) in mass to light their Streets since 1933 to Date (Type SOX)

All the Best

Colin

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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by Simon_R » Sun Nov 20, 2011 9:00 pm

We've just gone to Part-night street lighting aroud here are they switched off and on remotley or does each lamp work indepently? only last night I noticed they did not all go off together.

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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by Paul » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:21 am

Looks like a large scale switch off.... http://news.uk.msn.com/uk/lights-switch ... 3000-miles

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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by frutas » Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:30 am

Seems like they've ruined our street lighting system and replaced the one type of lamp thats designed just for times when energy saving is needed. They got so hung up on the age of the fittings and colour rendering and now we have no lighting at all available - much much worse than poor CRI or the occasional failure which wasn't that often bearing in mind the age of some of them.

Now its too late to get all the SOX back. What a mess!

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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by MetalHalideHater » Sun Oct 28, 2012 11:38 am

The A3 (the nearest A road to me), they're replacing the MAs, Philips SGSs and Urbis lanterns with these glary LED monstrosities.

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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by versalift09 » Sun Oct 28, 2012 5:18 pm

Had a site meeting the other day with a guy from Pudsey Diamond to run through the installation of a new LED Keep Left bollard we are trialling of theirs. The head poncho from Plymouth City Council was also there and the discussion of part night lighting came up. Plymouth have part night cells in use in various places and always have done, while Devon County Council have just completed a wholesale complete conversion to ALL part night cells. Plymouth are not looking to use any more part night cells and something the guy said was quite interesting:
Street lighting uses an estimated billing rather than metered (for obvious reasons) and apparently 24hrs is split into 3 price periods. The cheapest period being the overnight slot. The hours burned are then calculated using an average of ALL 3 price periods. Now the problem comes; if you switch off your lights with part night lighting, your bulk of energy usage is no longer in the cheap period and so the average is now calulated from the higher cost periods. Consequently your average is now higher when the lights are no longer on all night!

This is the gist of what he was saying- hope you can get your head around it! :geek: I'm not sure of the ins/outs but it seems to blow the part night knee jerk out of the water....

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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by LinearSLI-H » Sun Oct 28, 2012 9:49 pm

Before the grid system, all street lighting was conected to an `engine house`, with their own generater running off something like a Petter heavy oil engine over night.
You can`t cut costs by removing a single 35watt SOX, and then putting, in its place, 2 70watt SON!!, (as they are doing in Cheshire).

My solution is this:
As I have said before, street lighting here is OTT, more so in urban areas.
Does each side street lighting point HAVE to be 6000 lumens?, the Australians don`t do this, their urban areas are 50watt MBF, so we want white light?, so SOX are out, (as we know), and MBF are to be banned, so pull all the 70watt SON-Ts out of the Vectras, saphires or what ever, and fit the humble 26watt PL-C lamp in 840 colour.

1800 lumens is ample white light on each column with optics, and the saving would be better too.
Lets say you have 20,000 street lights for side street lighting, now with gear losses thats 1,720,000watts total for 70watt SON, (at 86watts each), take the same 20,000, and fit PL-C on SS, thats a new total of 640,000watts with gear losses, (at 32watts each), saving a huge 1,080,000watts off you night electricity use.
FEED THE MOOMIN!!

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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by Tom » Mon Oct 29, 2012 12:17 am

@Rich Replacing 70w SON-Ts with 26w PL-C on magnetic gear? Using a lamp that would be pretty much physically and optically compatible with a simple gear and lampholder swap? Nah, that would be far too simple, cheap and reliable! Hey, why not go one better with a pair of PL-C 13-18 watters with one on part-night?
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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by FrontSideBus » Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:44 am

35w CMH?
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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by sailormoon_01_uk » Mon Oct 29, 2012 7:58 am

Out of Interest has the Street lighting Switch Off hit your Area, I nkw a few months ago Sefton Council were to adopt the Switch Off and Part Night Lighting schemes but to date they have NOT implemented it

Re Banning Mercury Lamps my Opinion is the most stupid Idea, why as they are more reliable than any other Discharge Lamps, example MEtal Halides can explode during use, SON (SON, elliptical bulb with a diffusing coating, can be used in the same fitting as mercury lamps, but require different control gear. 2/ SON / HPS lamps.">SON-T, tubular clear hard glass for floodlighting. 3/ SON-TD, tubular double ended clear quartz, the length and cap are equivalent to those of tungsten halogen lamps.">High Pressure Sodium) Lamps cycle and with voltage rises and DC rectification can burn out the Gear, CFL and FLuorescents have Starting Issues in very Cold Climates, example during the Winter, also with mercury Lamps I have known them to operate well beyond their rated life example until they complete give little or No light, and they aare happy to run in any Climate from the Ocold of the Artic to the hot climates of the Desert without any issues, so again why ban them, also they give as much light per watt as most Fluorescent lamps anyway example up from 38 lumens per watt for the 50 watt Lamp to 55 lumens per watt for the 1000 watt Lamp.

I also think Street lighting should go back to SOX as they are NOT Banned, just being phased out due to councils are nolonger using them, again they are the most energy efficient Light source made example SOX Lamps gives from 100 Lumens per Watt for the 18w SOX LAmp to 200 lumens per watt for the 131w SOX-E Lamp, again why are SOX not used, all because the EU have Butted in by enforcing stupid Rules that Street lighting must have a Colour Rendering Index of 20 and above, basicially it's becoming a no whin situation, as more and more Street lighting points are replaced by so called efficient lights, but if you think about it it's the opposite, example a 35w SOX light has been replace by a 70w SON or Metal Halide, which run at TWICE the power and although slightly Brighter to the human ey it looks no difference, also when SOX was employed you never heard of Streetlighting Switchoff's and So Called Light Pollution etc, unlike these days as street lights are now Enery Hunagry as well as over powering, also dont forget most Pre War Street lighting used Filament Lamps to light the Roads from 100 watts to 1500 watts and even then there was NO issues of Street lighting Switchoffs

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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by FrontSideBus » Mon Oct 29, 2012 8:46 am

Its just a load of bollocks tbh. Same with all of these green energy saving Eco friendly stuff that probably uses a hell of a lot more energy to produce and causes a shipload more environmental damage when it is disposed of than the thing it was replacing?

I bet that's why the government stopped giving grants for solar installations, they realised that they are using more energy and creating more co2 from producing the damn things then they will ever save in service! Stop researching solar, wind and tide power and throw some money at nuclear fusion FFS!

I'm also concerned about all this noise about electric cars.... People seem to be ignoring how much energy goes into making these damned things with components coming from all over the world and as well as recycling all of the stuff like batteries ect when they reach end of life. I bet if you looked at the "total lifetime" co2 emissions, a normal car would be a fraction of a hybrid or electric car. There is also another problem... imagine what would happen if a million people went out and bought an electic car and then came hom from work at half 5 and plugged it in to recharge? Whoops!
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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by Ash » Mon Oct 29, 2012 4:31 pm

Solar panels DO save more CO2 than it takes to produce them. The governments stopped supporting them because they want the money now

Same with wind and waves. This is what energy should be in use. Nuke energy be used sparingy only when needed mpre enegy than can be supplied by solar/wind/waves

Here (Israel) solar installations are very supported by the utility and they pay over 3X the cost of electricity (a KWh you take from the grid is 0.6 NIS, a KWh you put into the grid is 2 NIS)



As for lighting, i agree that the amount of lighting is ridicuous. I recently came across a document from a road building company, addressed at experts, saying that the government standards require 25 lux lighting levels which is ridiculous, and their engineers think that 150W is fine

I think that most of what is lit today should not be lit at all. There is a reason why cars have headlights. For the rest of places, places flooded with 20 250W SON's in city centers would see 10 125W mercs if it would be me. Places that have smaller SONs would see TC-L and TC-S's. And only select few places which really need bright light would see SON's

What else is ridiculous that there are old 60's installations which are green in every possible way : high pole with 125W mercury. Replace lamp once in 15 years and you are fine. Lamp is ok, you see what you need and it does not disurb wildlife. Now the "green revolution" guys get there and put there 150W SON. It is blinding, disturbing, sometimes shining into windows, and where those contractors have been you see 1/10 of the stars in the sky than you seen before

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Re: Street Lighting Switch-Offs

Post by peterhoult » Thu Nov 14, 2013 7:05 am

I read a report recently from the Institute Of Lighting Engineers (ILE) that said turning off vast swathes of street lighting haphazardly or "every other one" was NOT to be recommended. Instead, dimming was the best solution or even turning off ALL lights on a street.

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