The end of magnetic ballasts

Topics relating to lighting control gear, including magnetic & high frequency ballast and ancilliary devices such as starters, ignitors and switchgear.
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SuperSix
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The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by SuperSix » Tue Apr 05, 2011 6:03 pm

Well as you all probably know, next year marks the end of fittings being manufactured with magnetic ballasts and 2017 means the end of magnetic ballasts completely! What the hell are we gonna do!? What's everyone else gonna do? Is it even worth making fittings serviceable any more since the ballasts only seem to last the life of one lamp?

I can't quite believe it really!

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Tom
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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by Tom » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:34 pm

I think I'm going to cry into my beer... :(

The gear we grew up with and all know and love will be no more! :x
I LOVE LAMP!

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Fitzy-Fan
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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by Fitzy-Fan » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:43 pm

**DISLIKES MUCHLY!"
Its so frustrating that all there concerned about is the efficiency of HF over Magnetic. They never look at the bigger picture of how much more will go into producing HF equiptment in mass production and have a bigger impact on the environment more then remaining with old school stuff.

I may have to make a call to The Samaritans Now! :(

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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by Dez » Tue Apr 05, 2011 8:48 pm

My school is filled with over 1000 SRS Fluorescent Fixtures :shock: and the ones in the corridors have been replaced with T5 electronic ballasted crap which is starting to fail already. :roll: :evil: :cry:

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SuperSix
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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by SuperSix » Tue Apr 05, 2011 9:57 pm

It's just the fact that putting aside the huge number of early failures, if the HF crap did last the average life (50,000-100,000) hours you can only expect them to last about 10-15 years in normal use and for lighting that's permanently on you can only expect them to last about 7 years! Come on! A magnetic ballast is only just about broken in after 10 years and will then go on to do a few million hours no problem!

Then there's also the problem with them being so sensitive to thing like heat, moisture, megger testers, surges and spikes on the supply that many of them don't make the average life.

It's just not good enough!

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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by Paul » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:40 pm

Sorry guys, just face the facts - the powers that be will NEVER listen to the people that matter. I think it's rediculous that the dickwads in power are killing off the magnetic ballast but what can we do?

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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by Kev » Tue Apr 05, 2011 10:56 pm

I am going to be contacting my local MP over this matter. I some how think that some will be exempt as HF is no good in damp conditions at all! It should be down to people what they want to install its very annoying i think we should start a partition or however you spell it. Im sure that some of the 2Pin lamps are exempt!

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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by SuperSix » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:29 pm

Well i heard they're ditching 2 pins but i have no confirmation of this, it's madness though. It's like if they were to ban replacement parts for 'gas guzzling' cars or stuff like that really, only lighting is overlooked by most people so it's an easy target.

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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by Kev » Tue Apr 05, 2011 11:54 pm

I dont suppose you still have that web site to hand do you eliot? I want to contact these people again because i am raging now! What about 400W MH gear and stuff like that? Is this just fluorescent light or HID too? I am going to contact the government over this!

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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by XmasLightGuy » Wed Apr 06, 2011 3:02 am

This banning of ballasts crap sucks :(

Here in the US, the ban on magnetic Rapid-Start & Instant Start ballasts (for 4' & 8' lamps) went into effect July 2010. (ballasts for other sizes are technically exempt but aren't made anymore either).

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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by Todd-uk » Sat May 14, 2011 1:05 am

Problem with HF ballasts is the electrolytic capacitors they use. Electro caps are water based and sure as eggs is eggs they dry out pretty quick in a hot environment like inside a light fitting and so we have built in failure/obsolecence. Has anyone done the sums to show whether the energy savings of HF ballasts are nullified by the more frequent failures? Not your euro dick head legislator that's for sure and um, no guesses where the replacement ballasts are going to be made. Not in Europe right?

Todd

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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by Kev » Sat May 14, 2011 9:16 am

@Todd One ballast goes in a classroom. 9X out of 10 will take the braker out. Classroom in darkness so you have to call out an electrician as most teachers do not even know what a fuse board looks like. 30 Mins travel time for an engineer on adverage, Turns up, Resets the braker Has a look at what ballast to order as most ""NORMAL"" leckys dont carry spares on the van like me, stands around for a bit Most electricians have a hour on site minimum so there is an hour and a half gone already. Replacment ballast comes in Costs the company say on adverage £30 they will sell it on again to the school for £40 or more of its a fancy dimming POS! Electrician drives back and fits ballast and replacment tubes too another hour and a half.

So 3 Hours for an electrician most charge out at more than this but lets just say £30 per hour = £90 + Ballast £40 £10 for tubes

So about £140 thats not including any access equipment if it is high level! Now if you had an old school 80s insall, Magnetic ballasts with electronic pulse starters.....Would the energy saving really be more than that?

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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by Paul » Sat May 14, 2011 10:31 am

You're spot on the way I see it Kev - ballast and starter switch. Upon switch-on, the starter closes and preheats the tube's cathode filaments. Upon opening, the magnetic field within the ballast collapses, causing a voltage pulse which strikes the tube. This is often repeated twice or more, causing the distinctive blinking at startup.">Switchstart has served us so well all these years, why replace it with cr*p, unrealiable "technology"?
I'm a computer consultant by trade and if the capacitors on a system board of a computer find it hard to last more than 4 years running at 12 & 5v without spewing out their electrolyte what hope do we have when it comes to the electronics in an HF ballast running at high voltages? It's all about companies finding "new" ways to build and sell fittings to make money. The costs involved as Kev says as well as the wasted time and energy making the ballast that failed and it finally ending up in the WEEE pile it a false economy. Then, we're faced with possibly having to decommssion 8 footers that work perfectly well and will continue to do so because we're told they're not worthy of being used in this supposed energy conscious day and age. What a crock! [/rant] LOL

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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by Kev » Sat May 14, 2011 5:49 pm

Yep a lot more goes in to making HF ballasts than it does a decent magnetic. One of the guys in the wholesaler i use agrees with me too, He said what they have done is created a whole new industry within an industry. Also another way of looking at it is, It is about adverage in High use areas like a shop or something to get about 5-10 years out of a ballast...Most electricians wouldnt even bother changing the ballast in a 10 year old fitting just scrap it and go and get another ideltical. That is what the money grabbing likes of Thorn want.
I mean GOD what use is lets just say an 8 foot superslim that lasts 50 years to Thorn? They sell one and 50 years later its still working? When they can churn out junk, sell them for more money, make them cheaper and they dont last so long, Its a no brainer for them! You can litterly slice your hands open on a new PP if you hold it wrong because the metal is so thin!

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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by Todd-uk » Thu May 19, 2011 8:01 pm

Common sense has no place in the EU just as facts have no place in religion so we ain't got no hope of reversing any daft directive no sirree.......

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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by LinearSLI-H » Fri Jul 01, 2011 10:07 am

The whole lighting industry will go LED in the next 20 years anyway :(
FEED THE MOOMIN!!

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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by Kev » Fri Jul 01, 2011 7:24 pm

@Rich LED is not actually that efficient!

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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by LinearSLI-H » Fri Jul 01, 2011 11:18 pm

:lol: :lol: not to worry, they will be like HF gear, but use everywhere anyway! :roll:
FEED THE MOOMIN!!

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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by MetalHalideHater » Sun Nov 20, 2011 6:40 pm

There are save it easy adaptors which convert 8 footers into 6 foot T8s. I wouldn't recommend them though - they only last around 3 years.

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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by FrontSideBus » Sat Dec 03, 2011 2:10 am

It's a load of bollocks tbh. There are magnetic ballasts out there that have been in operation for over 50 years. Ballast. Developed during the early 1980s from the low voltage transistorised ballast circuits. An entirely electronic ballast circuit that operates the tube at a frequency of several thousand hertz, hence the name. Types include programmed start that preheat the tube for a predetermined time, instant start and dimmable types that work from either 0-10v control signals or a simple push button switch. Reliability issues have been known due to complex circuitry or poor qu">High frequency, electronic ballasts don't last five...
Regards, Mark Jones.

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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by sailormoon01uk » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:09 am

I have heard of this a good while now we are going to be forced to use Unreliable Electronic Ballasts, which we know fail prematurely, Why cant they see the facts and stick to reliable ballasts, example how amy Collectors have aMagnetic Ballast which as lasted 40 or more Years ans id still working, and how many Electricians are annoyed replacing Electronic Ballasts which have lasted a few days or less, but sorry I have had enough of idiots who can't see the facts when it comes to reliable lighting.

Surely it's up to the End users or customers to decide if they want Reliable Magnetic Gear and exisiting Lamps or Modern Crap not some bloody Pen Pusher of a MEP in Brussels

Rant Over

Colin

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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by FrontSideBus » Sat Dec 03, 2011 11:21 am

I think the main problem (as with everything made today) is that you've got all of this sophisticated electronics gear, and then you go and mass produce it as cheaply as possible with the cheapest components in somewhere like the PRC.

I used to have an old microwave, must have been about 30 years old. Only got rid of it because I done up my kitchen and it looked a bit silly with the modern decor. The new all bells and whistles energy eficient inverter thing that replaced it lasted 6 months before the driver board went... Not lighting I know but it's the same problem. The fridge in my garage is still going strong after about 25 years but the brand new one in the kitchen is on its second compressor!
Regards, Mark Jones.

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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by Jack_T » Sat Dec 03, 2011 7:05 pm

Everything is made in bloody China nowadays! Drives me nuts!

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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by Jack_T » Mon Jan 30, 2012 6:16 pm

We all need to stock up on magnetic ballast fittings now!

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Kev
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Re: The end of magnetic ballasts

Post by Kev » Mon Jan 30, 2012 8:12 pm

well i can still get switch start OK at the moment and am planning on doing a large switch start install in the next couple weeks!!

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